Dear Amy: My husband and I became friends with a couple a little over a year ago. We had some nice times together, including dinners, movies, etc. They are very nice, own a lovely home and have two beautiful children who seem well cared for.
Well, recently this very nice couple informed us that they are "swingers"!
To say that my husband and I were shocked is an understatement. My husband and I have decided that we will no longer socialize with them, because we feel so strongly about their lifestyle.
My question is why?
Why would a married couple who claim they love each other have sex with other people?
Amy says: I shared your letter with Peter Sagal, author of "The Book of Vice: Very Naughty Things (and How to Do Them)" (2007, Harper Collins). In his book, the mild-mannered author describes a night he and his wife visited a "swingers" club. Sagal responded to you:
"I had the same question when I started researching my book, and instead of expressing shock and outrage, I found some swingers and asked them about it.
"They believe that what you do with your spouse's knowledge and consent isn't an infidelity. Millions of people in the 'lifestyle' and in other forms of open marriage have found that they can have sexual relationships with other people while still maintaining a strong emotional and intimate relationship with their spouse. In fact, they say that 'playing' with others can help strengthen that relationship.
"This arrangement doesn't work for everyone, but it's obviously working for them.
"And maybe you're not clear on this point ... but just because they have these sexual encounters with other people doesn't mean they want to do it with you. You could probably continue to attend their barbecues without risking a proposition. In fact, based on your letter, I think you can rest easy."
While I appreciate Sagal's explanation, I can't imagine that "swinging" is good for a marriage. But then, how your friends conduct their marriage isn't really my (or your) business. They are doing this because they want to, and it falls into the "consenting adults" category of human behavior.
If you continue to feel so strongly about this, I agree that it's best for you to keep your distance. Standing in judgment is not good for a friendship.
Oh deary me! Those terrible people coming out and telling their friends about their horrible perverse lifestyle.
This is part of the reason my vanilla and old school friends don't know I swing. I have really lost the taste for having to justify the relationship type D and I have, to other people who have no idea what's going on (and have no intention of having a conversation and learning about it).
Monogamy is so ingrained in our society that instead of even reacting with a neutral reaction, it's a severely negative one. I mean, this couple was so offended that their friends (their words) spoke to them about non monogamy (not asked them to make out or fuck) and an Ask Amy letter is the result. I mean, really people, get over it.
Let me address some of the readers original questions (because I get the same ones a lot).
My question is why? Why would a married couple who claim they love each other have sex with other people?If you're doing it right (swinging), sex isn't about love. Being able to compartmentalize and separate the sex you have with your primary partner, from the sex you have with other partners is paramount. Some people go fishing with their friends, some people play rugby or go to the movies. Swingers fuck their friends. Not all their friends, but some of them. Friends they usually make with the intent of getting naked.
Sex shouldn't be this thing you put on a pedestal. Although, I know swingers that hold some certain thing special for "just them"; Kissing, or vaginal penetration or anal penetration or something, I don't get that either. Seems to me that EVERYTHING you do with your #1 would be more special than it would be with anyone else.
Now to address some of the responses from the experts.
"I had the same question when I started researching my book, and instead of expressing shock and outrage, I found some swingers and asked them about it.What a great idea! Ask the people who actually do these things before getting angry at them.
"They believe that what you do with your spouse's knowledge and consent isn't an infidelity. Millions of people in the 'lifestyle' and in other forms of open marriage have found that they can have sexual relationships with other people while still maintaining a strong emotional and intimate relationship with their spouse. In fact, they say that 'playing' with others can help strengthen that relationship.Swinging and having an open relationship has strengthened and enhanced D and I's relationship. Seriously. That's why we're still doing it, and that's why I like to tell other people about it. Because, maybe it can work for them. D likes to say "If everyone had the kind of sex Jaine and I have, there would be no war." I agree, because we'd all be naked having waaaaay too much fun to think about war.
"This arrangement doesn't work for everyone, but it's obviously working for them.Out of the full population (let's say of the US), a small percentage of those are swingers. Take a fraction of that percentage and those are the swingers who are doing it because they like it/it enhances their relationship/they're doing it right etc. I can draw you a pie chart if you need it. Swinging doesn't even work for every relationship. I know for a fact that before I met D, swinging with any of my other partners was not an option for a long list of reasons.
"And maybe you're not clear on this point ... but just because they have these sexual encounters with other people doesn't mean they want to do it with you. You could probably continue to attend their barbecues without risking a proposition. In fact, based on your letter, I think you can rest easy."
Another assumption people make when talking to swingers is that swingers fuck everyone. It's like the fear of bisexuals; because they're attracted to multiple sexes/genders/whatever everyone has to watch out because you might be next! (Lordy say it ain't so!).
Swingers are normal people, they have kids and jobs and houses and friends they don't fuck and friends they do fuck. They do normal people things like shop for groceries, play kickball and eat at Chipotle. Swingers don't go stalking their vanilla friends looking for an opportunity to bash someone out caveman style and drag them off to their rooms, tie them to the ceiling by their ankles, and start cracking whips. Swingers can be on their best behavior. Like Peter Sagal says, you can go to BBQs or PTA meetings with swingers without having to worry about being molested by them. Do I want to fuck some of my vanilla friends? Sure! But they don't know about it and they probably never will. That's ok, I've got other people who know the situation who are happy to get in bed with D and I.
While I appreciate Sagal's explanation, I can't imagine that "swinging" is good for a marriage. But then, how your friends conduct their marriage isn't really my (or your) business. They are doing this because they want to, and it falls into the "consenting adults" category of human behavior.I'd be happier if this last paragraph wasn't so...back-handidly-complimental towards couples with non-conventional marriages. There are some marriages swinging will never work for, and that's usually one of the first things I tell people. But those who have non-conventional relationships that work for them do exist. At least the last two sentences are true; what two people do in the bedroom really is none of your business. No one is getting hurt, it's really all fun and games as long as everyone is consenting.
No one is going to make anyone be friends with swingers, although you probably know more swingers than you think, you just don't know they're swingers. Remember, if you really have a problem with non-monogamy. Talk to them about it! If you're still uncomfortable, tell the couple you don't want to see them anymore. They might be hurt, or disappointed, but they'll be ok. They'll also thank you for being honest with them.
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